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Old 04-05-2011, 08:11 AM
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Today's Newsday Article

Rich,
In your article posted in today's Newsday you indicated that we should work together to establish parity between recreational and commercial fishermen. This has been a very emotional subject in the past. Can you expand upon this idea so that we know what is the position of the Fishing Line?

Thanks.
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Old 04-05-2011, 09:01 PM
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Hey Jay, Both parties are in big trouble as they have been in the last few years. The RECS vs COMM thing will forever live on. People just dont understand all the politics that goes with the fisheries. Soon we wont be able to keep any fish, Rec or comm. Thats the way its gonna be, All the comms will soon go to IFQ fishing (individual fishing quotas), then its all over for all of us , so no need to worry anymore. Freshwater fishing is looking better everyday. Kevin Van Dam LOOK OUT.
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Old 04-05-2011, 11:06 PM
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Thanks Cow.....I thought when Rich mentioned parity he was suggesting that we all participate in some kind of activism. I wanted to get involved but I wanted to make sure we were all on the same page.

Hey...we can all do some fresh water fishing. Right about now the crappies should be active. They are as sweet as porgies. White perch is underfished.
Carp is underfished and on Long Island, so is catfish.

Now how is that for a plan?
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaye43b View Post
Rich,
In your article posted in today's Newsday you indicated that we should work together to establish parity between recreational and commercial fishermen. This has been a very emotional subject in the past. Can you expand upon this idea so that we know what is the position of the Fishing Line?

Thanks.
parity between rec's and comm?...for years I have been preaching the comm's get 60% of the fluke and rec's 40%..if that was 50/50 we would have much more leniant quotas..
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:34 AM
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Oh!! Ok.....I have no problems if they have 60 percent since that is the way they make a living. I just want to be able to take home the same size of fluke. I think the present rules are killing the future of fishing. Even if the adults can't take home a 16in fluke, our children and all first time fishermen should be able to do so. Nothing hurts them more than to throw back the largest fish they have ever caught. That is a turn off and drives participation levels down. I also think that eventually hurts the party boat business.
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Old 04-06-2011, 06:53 PM
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Different fish species, but a few years back when my wife joined me on the boat, I pulled in a schoolie striper, unhooked it, and slipped the 26 incher back over the side. I will always remember her incredulous query, "JUST HOW BIG DO THEY HAVE TO BE."
This summer my buddy had his daughter in law catch her first ever fluke, a fat 18 or 19incher. Back over the side it went. If that were her boat and gas, or her $40 bucks spent on a party boat, does anyone think she just got "hooked on fishing?"
I am all for a one fish, dinner plate filet-size, slot limit.
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Old 04-06-2011, 07:52 PM
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I think it is easier to teach a young child the importance of conservation with the catch and release of undersized fish. You would be suprised as to how smart they really are. I think it would keep them coming back for more knowing that "this might be the day I catch a keeper". Just imagine the look in their eyes then. Just my opinion
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:05 PM
steamboat1 steamboat1 is offline
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parity between rec's and comm?...for years I have been preaching the comm's get 60% of the fluke and rec's 40%..if that was 50/50 we would have much more leniant quotas..
The total quota is split 60% com/40% rec. coastwide. After the total quota is split then each state gets it's percentage of the quota both rec & com. In NY the commercial percentage is approx. 7.6% of the commercial quota & the recreational percentage is approx. 17.6% of the recreational quota. If you sat down & figured it out you'd find that in NY recreational anglers actually get approx. 61% of the allotted poundage to NY while commercial fishermen get approx. 39%. Quite a different story if you knew how it really works.

North Carolina gets the largest percentage of the commercial quota at approx. 27.4% of the commercial quota while New Jersey gets the largest percentage of the recreational quota at approx. 39.7% of the recreational quota.

Maine & New Hampshire who are both members of the ASMFC get next to nothing of both the com. & rec. quota.

This is how the fluke quota is actually split. Just thought I'd let you know...

Last edited by steamboat1; 04-06-2011 at 09:01 PM.
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Old 04-06-2011, 08:40 PM
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Then they figure how much recreational angler effort is applied in each state using data from MRFFS surveys. NY has a lot more angler effort then say a state like CT. This is why a state like CT. who only gets 3.7% of the recreational quota still has much better recreational regs than NY. In case you weren't aware CT. came out with their fluke regs already for this year. There recreational regs for this year will be 3 fish @ 18.5" from May 15-Sept 5 with shore anglers being allowed to keep one fish @ 17".

It's nice to say that the 60/40 split is what hurts NY fluke regs and most would believe you but that is unrealistic.

Commercial landings are far more accurate for each state because not only does the fishermen catching them have to report their catch but also the person buying them so it's sorta a system of checks & balances. I'm not saying MRFFS data is accurate but this is the way it works.

Also starting next year any overage in any given states recreational landings will be subtracted from their quota the following season. Previously only commercial overages were subtracted from any given states commercial quota the following year. Better hope we don't go over quota next year because we made our regs to lenient. If we do we will get a double whammy the following season.

Oh & Cowkiller is right both rec.s & coms are both in deep doo doo. They (our gov't) has figured out a way to make our fisheries like a commodity that can be traded by hedge funds by implementing catch shares & sector management but that's another rant for another time.

Last edited by steamboat1; 04-06-2011 at 09:36 PM.
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Old 04-06-2011, 09:17 PM
basssman basssman is offline
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Screw the regs and the false science they are based on.

I believe in Filet and Release 1 - 20" Fluke per trip. Just enough for the dinner table.
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Old 04-07-2011, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post
Then they figure how much recreational angler effort is applied in each state using data from MRFFS surveys. NY has a lot more angler effort then say a state like CT. This is why a state like CT. who only gets 3.7% of the recreational quota still has much better recreational regs than NY. In case you weren't aware CT. came out with their fluke regs already for this year. There recreational regs for this year will be 3 fish @ 18.5" from May 15-Sept 5 with shore anglers being allowed to keep one fish @ 17".
It's nice to say that the 60/40 split is what hurts NY fluke regs and most would believe you but that is unrealistic.
This 60/40 split coastwide IS what is hurting the quota of all states...if it was 50/50 the overages wouldn't hurt us so bad because we wouldn't be over so much or even at all....bis iS

Also starting next year any overage in any given states recreational landings will be subtracted from their quota the following season.
It has always been like this

Oh & Cowkiller is right both rec.s & coms are both in deep doo doo. They (our gov't) has figured out a way to make our fisheries like a commodity that can be traded by hedge funds by implementing catch shares & sector management but that's another rant for another time.
Agreed
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:00 PM
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(I wrote)
Also starting next year any overage in any given states recreational landings will be subtracted from their quota the following season.

(RJ wrote)
It has always been like this

No it has never been like this for state recreational quota. Yes if they were over quota one year the state would adjust next years regs to try to come in compliance but to actually subtract any overage from the following years quota was never done for recs. Coms on the other hand have always had quota reduction for any overage.
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:23 PM
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(RJ wrote)

This 60/40 split coastwide IS what is hurting the quota of all states...if it was 50/50 the overages wouldn't hurt us so bad because we wouldn't be over so much or even at all....bis iS

As I've already explained above NY rec anglers already get over 60% of NY's quota. You want more?

Same thing holds true for NJ since coms get only 16.7% of the commercial quota while recs get 39.7% of the recreational quota.

Anyway this shouldn't be a rec vs com argument. In the end that only hurts all user groups & helps those opposed to all fishing. The old divide & conquer mantra comes to mind. NJ had the right idea because they hired independent scientists to refute NOAA scientists about the size of the biomass. This has led to the quota for all user groups to go up by millions of pounds every year for several years. If I remember correctly this years overall quota alone was increased by over 3 million pounds because of their efforts.

Last edited by steamboat1; 04-07-2011 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 04-07-2011, 12:33 PM
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Thanks. You have certainly given me an expanded perspective and a better appreciation for the issues at hand.
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post
(I wrote)
Also starting next year any overage in any given states recreational landings will be subtracted from their quota the following season.

(RJ wrote)
It has always been like this

No it has never been like this for state recreational quota. Yes if they were over quota one year the state would adjust next years regs to try to come in compliance but to actually subtract any overage from the following years quota was never done for recs. Coms on the other hand have always had quota reduction for any overage.
YES it HAS through conservation equivilency any overage one year gets deleted from the following year through the allowance given to us by ASMFC...
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:02 PM
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(RJ wrote)

This 60/40 split coastwide IS what is hurting the quota of all states...if it was 50/50 the overages wouldn't hurt us so bad because we wouldn't be over so much or even at all....bis iS

As I've already explained above NY rec anglers already get over 60% of NY's quota. You want more?

.
You have it backwards Rec's get 40% and comm's get 60%%..please get your facts straight
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Old 04-07-2011, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steamboat1 View Post
(RJ wrote)

This 60/40 split coastwide IS what is hurting the quota of all states...if it was 50/50 the overages wouldn't hurt us so bad because we wouldn't be over so much or even at all....bis iS

As I've already explained above NY rec anglers already get over 60% of NY's quota. You want more?

Same thing holds true for NJ since coms get only 16.7% of the commercial quota while recs get 39.7% of the recreational quota.

Anyway this shouldn't be a rec vs com argument. In the end that only hurts all user groups & helps those opposed to all fishing. The old divide & conquer mantra comes to mind. NJ had the right idea because they hired independent scientists to refute NOAA scientists about the size of the biomass. This has led to the quota for all user groups to go up by millions of pounds every year for several years. If I remember correctly this years overall quota alone was increased by over 3 million pounds because of their efforts.
The quota went up coastwide because most states were UNDER last year's quotas
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Old 04-07-2011, 06:02 PM
steamboat1 steamboat1 is offline
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Rich:

1-Do you even know what conservation equivalency means? Please explain.

2-Try reading my explanation of the NY quota split again, more slowly this time. Maybe you'll understand what I wrote but somehow I doubt it.

3-Why was the quota increased by millions of pounds for 3 consecutive years even though the majority of states were over the recreational quota? Even threatened with a complete shut down in 2009 but the quota was increased anyway. Any guess's?

4- Why do I have to watch you reel in a short blackfish everytime I log into your site?

Can't wait for your answers...

Last edited by steamboat1; 04-08-2011 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 04-12-2011, 03:52 PM
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Screw the regs and the false science they are based on.

I believe in Filet and Release 1 - 20" Fluke per trip. Just enough for the dinner table.
amen brother
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